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tv   Up W Steve Kornacki  MSNBC  March 2, 2014 5:00am-7:01am PST

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there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. obama and putin's it tough talk over the crisis in cripple yeah. crimea. we have a report on where the chris christie is headed. you'll want to stick around for that late they are morning. we begin with the crisis in ukraine and president obama's 90-minute phone call with russian president vladimir putin late yesterday. that conversation president obama told president putin that the u.s. may have to boycott the upcoming g-8 summit in russia and threaten ed further action f
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russia does not the withdraw troops from ukrainian territory of crimea. we'll go to the white house for the latest on that in a moment. first more on the events moving at break neck speed in ukraine this weekend as indicated by the substance of that phone call. russian forces have been taking over crimea apparently without firing a single shot. without even appearing to be russian forces, for that matter. long lines of tanks and trucks and soldiers wearing uniforms without any identifying marks moving into critical areas of the southern ukraine territory of crimea, a section of the former soviet republic that juts out into the black sea which makes it strategically very important. the acting president went on tv to announce under the guise of military exercises they had entered crimea. they captured the local parliament building and commune hubs and the airports.
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planes landed throughout the night. soldiers have since been seen digging trenches along the crimean border. this isn't the first time russia has done something like this. in 2008 russia sent troops into two breakaway regions in the former soviet republic of georgia. start add war with georgia over control of those two places. five-day conflict that russia won. russia then recognized those two regions as independent nations. their governments enjoy close relations with moscow even if others consider them part of georgia. so that's the fear for crimea today that russia might be trying to provoke another conflict now. they could be trying to get the new leadership that's in charge of ukraine in the wake of the fall of the russian lined government. they might be trying to get them to go to are war over crimea or if ukraine doesn't fight back russia could keep the peninsula and the black sea where it has a naval base, population tends to
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identify more with russia than ukraine anyway. could make for a good base of operations from which to plot its next move and maybe take over more of the heavily russian-speaking areas of eastern ukraine. on friday, the day before his phone call with putin, president obama reacted in what was described as hastily arranged remarks. >> we are now deeply concerned by reports of military movements taken by the russian federation inside of ukraine. russia has a historic relationship with yukraine including cultural and economic ties and a military facility in crimea. but any violation of ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity would be deeply destabilizing. >> on saturday in response to those remarks russia threatened to send the u.s. ambassador home from moscow. russia's parliament granted permission to use the russian military in ukraine. what would have seemed to be a retroactive stamp.
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what's to stop russia from deploying troops gathered in ukraine in the crimea to other parts of ukraine. the u.s. tried to stop putin? is there really an appetite to stop him more than 20 years after the end of the cold war. more to the point, is the outraged rhetoric from obama and other american western leaders only emboldening putin? reports on saturday indicated that the debate in russia's parliament was marked by angry reactions to obama's statement. "the new york times" report from crimea described demonstrators welcoming the russian incursion with signs saying free ukraine from u.s. occupation, and the usa works with fascism. the question of what, if anything, the united states can and should do also hovers over the news this week out of uganda where after years of flirting with the idea the government implemented a measure that makes it illegal to be gay in uganda imposes harsh penalties for homosexuality including prison.
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earlier versions of the ugandan legislation called for the death penalty as the sentence for some gay acts. the vinyl version of the bill left out capital punishment but pretty much everything else was signed into law. the instinct in america and the west when hearing about such a law is to ask what are we going to do about it? we can condemn it. we can threaten to cut off aid and we can actually cut off aid. at least three european countries this week already have wi withdrawn millions of dollars from uganda, depends on support for 20% of its budget, one-fifth of its budget. the world bank announced that it would be delaying $90 million in loans to uganda. it's clear uganda will pay a severe financial penalty. but it may not be that simple. the $500 million the u.s. gives to uganda, the vast majority goes to public health pro jukts fighting hiv and aids.
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who pays the price if that funding is rejoked? government officials who pass the anti-gay bill or people who have aids? they make up the bulk of the african union peacekeeping force in somalia leading the fight against an al qaeda group. beyond that if you listen to the leadership in uganda what seems to be driving this is resentment of the cultural norms of america and the west and what they see as attempts to impose that godless culture on their society and by objecting so loudly and threatening so much action the western world being counterproductive? is it providing uganda's leaders with a populous tool to rally behind harsh laws like the one implemented this week? are our best instincts actually making things worse? some of the reactions from america and the west also help to fuel vladimir tu pin's push for the anti-gay law russia passed last year telling russians he was trying to protect their proud culture from the destructive forces of the west.
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as we said at the top there's reporting that shows that russia is now leaning on populous resentment of america and the west to stir up support in crimea and parts of ukraine for its actions there. outrage can be empowering not just when you are feeling it but when you are on the receiving end of it. that outrage can be used as a tool. something to keep in mind the obama administration tries to figure out its next steps in both of these situations. from the white house i want to bring in nbc's chrkristen welke for the latest first on the ukraine situation. kristen, good morning. we have this readout of the phone call from between president obama and president putin yesterday according to the white house where obama threatened putin there could be greater political and economic isolation for russia, also said that we would -- the united states would pull out of preparations for the upcoming g-8 summit in sochi. i'm looking at that, is there anything more the united states is talking about threatening or can threaten here?
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>> reporter: right. it's a really important question, steve. by the way, that conversation described as tense in part because of what you said president obama announcing that the u.s. would suspend its participation in those meetings for the g-8 summit. vladimir putin pushing back, defending russia's actions. so incredibly tough words during those 90 minutes that were spoken yesterday. so what can the united states actually do? there has been some talk of potential sanctions. not surprisingly you have some of the more hawkish members of congress calling on president obama to take a tougher stance. senator john mccain, for example, coming out and say that go president obama needs to do a better job of laying out exactly what the costs will be if russia continues to escalate its intervention. i've been speaking to some foreign policy experts, one telling me that, look, one possible option is to cancel upcoming meetings with trade delegations and to consider forfeiting russia's participation in the g-8, that
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those would be stronger stances to take because what president obama did by announcing that the u.s. will suspend its participation in these preparatory meetings amounts to essentially a slap on the wrist but not necessarily an all-out snub. so those are some of the options that are being discussed, steve. what's not being discussed is any military action here. it really seems they're looking at the policy, the potential economic steps that they can take at this point. steve? >> all right, kristen welker at the white house, thanks for that update. joining us now at the table we have a foreign editor with buzz feed who spent time covering russia, the co-founder of the political consulting firm fenway strategies. he's a former spokesman with the national security council under president obama. elise jordan worked with the nsc under president george w. bush, now a contributor to "the daily beast." and haze brown covers national security issues for think progress.
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thanks for joining us. you know russia so well, maybe you could give us some context and some background about what exactly is going on here. the crimea was sort of transferred, i guess, to the ukraine in 1954 by then the soviet union, there are a lot of russian speaking people who live there and a lot of russian speaking people, people who identify more with russia in the eastern part of ukraine. are we seeing a strategy here by vladimir putin to include these predominantly russian speaking areas? is that what's going on? >> i think that's what's going on when we see what's happening in crimea and the most important thing to watch is what will happen in eastern ukraine. i don't think he's going to stop at crimea. putin has this imperial project, one of the biggest tragedies that he said was the collapse of the soviet union and what he's trying to do is kind of rebuild russia's imperial strength so he's relying on this very not sort of native idea of what it
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means to be russian so he draws on ethnic ties. he draws on religious ties, and he sort of sees anybody in russia's sphere as anybody who has this super orthodox and russian identification. >> and that's the other interesting thing, too, it's the stalin area that all these people were moved from srussia maybe against their will to parts of the soviet empire and large russian-speaking communities, communities sort of loyal to moscow sprouted up, and now that is sort of becoming the pretense in part for putin trying to expand the territory because this declaration he got from parliament yesterday didn't just say crimea. it basically carte-blanche for all of ukraine. >> precisely. that's why there are a lot of fears growing. you have these communities in kazakhstan, in latvia. you have these shrussian-speaki communities all over the former soviet union because everybody was just kind of moved all over the place. if he's allowed to do this, the
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question then becomes what's next? >> so, tommy, what about the prime minister of ukraine, the current inter -- whatever you want to call him -- called this a declaration of war. there are russian troops on the scene. ukraine does not have the military mite to fight back, full fledge d russian incursion. is there any scenario under which there's a conflict here or can srussia take what it wants because nobody wants a conflict with them. >> i can't see anywhere it involves u.s. forces. i think what we're seeing here is putin lashing out militarily in response to a massive political defeat. he lost a very close ally when he was depose d and sent from kiev and now is sending troops in. i think we need to reject, the united states needs to reject, the zero sum look at this that ukraine must choose to be russian or choose to be western. this is a sovereign nation. they should be able to live how
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they please and have their sovereignty respected. he broke that. i think the readout you read out earlier was remarkable. i've worked on a lot of these at the white house and it was trying to figure out ways to say nothing with different words. they talked about issues of mutual concern, whatever. this was direct. this was in putin's face. and letting him know there will be diplomatic consequences like kicking them out of the g-8, sanctions, breaking off trade talks. there's little you can do it here militarily. i don't think it's in the u.s. interests to start a war with russia but there will be an international response. it will be isolating for russia. >> what does that mean, elise, do you think, to somebody like putin? we're not going to participate in the prep pratory meetings for the g-8. maybe there won't be any this year. >> i think it's a slap on the wrist.
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putin has no fear. he saw how obama handled syria and the red line and is incredibly empowered. this shows a lack of foresight in the obama foreign policy that has, unfortunately, been more of the rule. you look at how the ambassador to the ukraine are talking about power sharing arrangements. it gets leaked on youtube. and we're -- but there's no plan for what happens next. so this happens and you think putin isn't going to respond. like, what is our response? >> i guess what i wonder and i think back to 2008 and the situation in georgia and george w. bush was president, the united states was outraged at this incursion, ultimate ly it wasn't something the united states was willing to put any troops on the ground to stop and ultimately putin just sort of got his way and life went on. i wonder is there more that the united states can do here? >> not in terms of military response. even in the time of george w. bush when we had a much larger defense budget, we couldn't do
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anything to stop russia when it invaded georgia, so i don't think there's much in terms of that. we did have, like you mentioned, the $40 million of trade with s russia and they want more. even last december they were trying to negotiate to have not quite a free trade deal but a much bigger economic tie to the united states. so if we cut off those talks, if we try to as far as we can within the wto lower our trade with russia, that would send a pressey strong message. >> how far are we going to go? will we turn russia into an international pariah? what really are these harsh measures? i don't think that, oh, not going to sochi g-8, no one wants to go there anyway. >> we've been there. we've seen the hotels. >> you mentioned possibly taking away visas from the parliament. that is an option on the table. putting a travel ban on putin traveling outside of russia if the u.s. really wants to send a
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strong message -- >> which would be great. >> round up our allies to do the same thing, that would be amazing. >> there are some reasons maybe why our allies hesitate to take a step like that. we can talk more about what could or should be done given what's going on in ukraine right now. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom. did you run into traffic? no, just had to stop by the house to grab a few things. you stopped by the house? uh-huh. yea. alright, whenever you get your stuff, run upstairs, get cleaned up for dinner. you leave the house in good shape? yea. yea, of course. ♪ [ sportscaster talking on tv ] last-second field go-- yea, sure ya did. [ male announcer ] introducing at&t digital life. personalized home security and automation. get professionally monitored security for just $29.99 a month. with limited availability in select markets. ♪ cut!
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100-day money back guarantee. get your best rest ever from sleep train. superior service, best selection, lowest price, guaranteed. ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ the debate, if you want to call it a debate, that took place in russian parliament, authorizing military force, this sort of anti-western themes that were stressed and the theme in the russian media and the parliament, this idea that the demonstrations that were taking place in kiev were sort of represented a danger to russian speaking people. a member of parliament, all this
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is done under the g uise of democracy. all of this under the false g uise of peaceful demonstrations so we must be ready in case they unleash the dogs on us. when i hear that rhetoric and we talk about what this readout from the united states effort, that the obama phone call about isolating russia further, i almost see a leader, putin, in a country that doesn't mind being isolated and in a way has some leverage, too, with europe, not so much the united states but with europe when it comes to, like, oil. >> what putin is led by, he wants to be respected on the world stage. this is something you've seen since the first day he got in power. he trade it through respect and weigh saw the appeals to the united nations. the only place russia had power was on the security council so it wielded its veto as much as it could. it wasn't getting the respect that it wanted and now they're
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kind of conflating fear and respect. i'm not sure they would revel in the isolation but in the center of world news and just having everybody fraek 0 out about what on earth they're doing. >> so where does this -- tell me, where does this go next? the question is would there be a full-scale takeover of crimea? would that become part of russia, or would it become an autonomy referendum on the ballot soon. it would be like the rebounds, the breakaway rebounds loyal to moscow and maybe parts of eastern ukraine. are there other parts of the old soviet empire that they have their eye on, too? >> that's a great question, clearly what the president was pointing at in this readout of the phone call yesterday. with respect to the rhetoric, i think there are some things anti-western, something putin has used since day one to rally his base and demagogue the west. the playbook of every autocrat from mubarak to putin.
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the challenge for the united states is when tomorrow we still have to wake up and work with them on syria, north korea, on getting supplies to troops in afghanistan. there's a whole bunch of other issues we need to continue to get progress on, arms control reduction, aside from this. that is what makes this so complicated. we need a strong response and that includes sanctions and that includes diplomatic isolation, but there's a limit. >> and could we -- you mentioned syria and iran -- could we have a productive working relationship with russia, which is vital to those two questions if we're putting sanctions on the table, if we are then taking actions, not military but in response to this sort of poking a stick in putin's eye? >> all the things that he just mentioned are things really important to russia as well. on the things that russia cares
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about, they're willing to come to the table, counterterrorism, iran, nuclear issue, syria, but that's when they just do what they want and where we run into trouble. you mentioned that prestige is big in putin's mind. kicking him out of the g-8 would be a serious step. when they got in the '90s it was a huge boost of recently collapsed soviet union/russia and so kicking him out would show him that these sorts of moves don't hold the sort of respect that you want russia to have. >> what's the threat to the united states, elise? can we live with, let's say, there's sort of a quasi autonomous crimea that's loyal to moscow and maybe picks off parts of eastern ukraine that are heavily shrussian speaking d that become loyal to moscow and the rest of ukraine more aligned with europe? is that ultimately a long -term threat to the united states? >> it's slowing nato expansion prospects. but i just disagree on how much
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i think we need russia right now. i think syria has really been to putin's benefit, i think to e iran, that they're at a point in negotiations where the iranians have such a vested interest right now that we're in a much better position than we've ever really been -- we're in such a -- i think we could get more. if the american delegation doesn't get more from iran, that's going to be a complete shame. but i just don't see what we're getting from the russians these days where it really matters all that much because they're going to follow their own interests at the end of the day. >> well, we will switch gears when we get back, ask about this with our guest and also will talk about the rhetoric in uganda and how that must be met with action. we'll pick it up next. gives you more freshness than two sheets of the leading national store brand? who knew? so, how do you get your bounce? with more freshness in a single sheet.
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other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? don't wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed. well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. joining us from washington is chris coons from the
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subcommittee on african affairs. he's talked out strongly against the anti-gay bill in uganda. first, the calls for the united states to do sanctions or pulling out of the g-8 meeting, what do you think the response to the ukraine should be right now? >> steve, we need to remember this is russia not the soviet union. they are a shadow of their form er sell was and what putin has been trying to do in recent years is to work his way back into international respectability. we've just put the finishing touches on the olympic games in sochi. the most expensive winter games in history. and there's an upcoming g-8 summit at sochi. i do think that we can and should respond in a thoughtful, forceful, multilateral way to russian overreach and aggression in the crimea i think we should force them to use their veto it
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at the u.n., to veto denouncing adventurism in crimea and i think we should get our allies to withdraw from the g-8 summit in sochi and discuss other trade issues or sanctions. we also have to make sure that our rhetoric isn't overreaching and isn't further escalating this crisis. putin suffered a political defeat when he was chased out of the country and they are retaining the naval base in simferopol in crimea and southeastern ukraine. if we work in a thoughtful and measured way with our european allies to push back in way that is putin will respond to that affect shrussian primacy in the region there is a possibility of moving forward in a way that allows ukrainians to resolve the issue.
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>> i want to get to uganda now. i wanted to spend more time on this and the developments in ukraine made it impossible. there was a big story this week, this anti-homosexuality bill signed into law in ukraine and we talked about how a lot of the rhetoric over there is directed sort of anti-american, anti-western. this is being framed by politicians in the ukraine as sort of a reaction to the excesses of the west. here is an example. the ethics minister of uganda reacting to about how money from europe might start flowing into the country. we'll not shy away from this. we want to rid this kcountry of homosexuality, and if these people want to stop their aid, let them. we don't need it. we will be able to save these gays from damnation. we have taken that position as a government because this is a democracy beand what the people
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want. in the face of that attitude and the face of the populous appeal of this kind of law, i wonder what it is the united states can do here. >> well, steve, we do need to be respectful of concerns of the lgbt community in uganda. when i was there a year ago and met with activists they were asking me not to be too publicly aggressive on their behalf, but we need to hold to account our ally who has been president of uganda for decades now. in recent years he has become aggressive of political dissenters. this law framed as an anti-western, pro-ugandan religious freedom initiative is only the most aggressive of a whole series of laws enacted by countries across the continent -- nigeria in january of this year, for example. also a u.s. ally. also the recipient of hundreds of millions of aid from the united states. enacted a sweeping anti-had homosexuality law. the one in uganda goes further
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than any other on the continent. it doesn't just criminalize activity, that is a violation of basic human rights, but it makes illegal advocating for lgbt rights, failing to report to the authorities someone you believe to be homosexual so this criminalizes free speech and activity related to one's sexual identity in a way i think the united states can't simply stand by and allow to happen. >> so, senator, what is it we can do when it seems like the threats and it seems the actual withholding of aid as we see here is prompting the reaction i just read to you when there's such strong appeal for these politicians in uganda including the president who didn't seem a month ago want iing to sign thi facing re-election, seeing the populous appeal to it. what leverage does he have to stop this? >> we provide nearly $500 million in assistance to you
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began at that, the single source of foreign aid. as you mentioned at the top of the show the world bank and a number of our scandinavian allies have put on hold or withdrawn financial support to uganda already and it makes up nearly 20% of their budget. we have a close security relationship with uganda as well. we have provided equipment and training to their police and their military, they've been valuable and helpful allies for us in the hunt for joseph coney and in stabilizing somalia. they're part of the peacekeeping force there that is fighting back against al shabab. we shouldn't move suddenly or rashly but i think as the administration conducts a top-to-bottom review of our aid we should look seriously at reducing or cutting off assistance related to he police training. their police have already been involved in anti-lgbt violence. we should have serious and direct conversations with the president about how this will affect the withstanding of our relationships and i frankly think we need to look to other re regional allies to be our
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partners so we aren't overly reliant on uganda for the actions in somalia or the actions against coney. we need to be able to have our actions stand up to our rhetoric. we also need to make it clear through a travel warning for those considering traveling to you fwuganda and for those who o leave uganda that it's become an oppressive environment for the lgbt community. it's important for us to put on the table the possibility of sanctions or visa denials for those who incite violence against the lgbt community in uganda. we have a range of things we can do and we need to make sure that our rhetoric is matched by our actions, steve. >> okay. that's quite a list here. let's see how many are actually implemented and followed through. i want to thank senator chris coons of delaware for joining us as well as elise jordan, hayes brown, miriam elder, reamians are in position to take back the senate this year potentially but will members of their own party
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senator ted cruz playing a word association game earlier this week when mike allen named a notable political figure. cruz was asked to respond with one word. so when mike allen said chris christie, cruz responded with the word, brash. but then he added some more words, too. >> listen, i think the whole bridge gate thing is nonsense. i think it is an example of the media piling on apparently the most important story in the country is there was some traffic in new jersey. >> that's one way of looking at it. if you've watched this show lately you know it's more than some traffic. we will have some exclusive information to report to you regarding what's about to happen to one of chris christie's top political appointees. stick around. [ male announcer ] they say mr. clean was born
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uprising that has steered the republican party far to the right by engineering a series of shocking primary victories over republican establishment figures turned five years old. the question is whether that same upheaval, the upheaval that lifted candidates like christine o'donnell and sharon engle to shocking primary victories and allowed democrats to win races they otherwise had no business winning, whether that same upheaval will define the republ republican party in this year's midterms. it's a critical question since control of the senate is very much within reach for the gop this november. the evidence is conflicting. take ted cruz who won his senate seat in a texas tea party uprising in 2012 and quickly alienated many of his colleagues in the upper chamber when he used his grassroots appeal to push the party into a politically disastrous government shutdown last fall. in the wake that have debacle cruz seemed eager to make nice with his colleagues and promised not to intervene in gop primaries. he roimsed not to fundraise for
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the senate kfb fund, the largest and most powerful backer of tea party insurgent candidates. this seemed like a big boost for the gop establishment until this week when politico reported that cruz had signed a fund-raising letter for something called the madison project, a lower profile version working to defeat mitch mcconnell, pat roberts of kansas and in gop pray mares this year. thursday cruz addressed the story in a story with politico's mike allen. >> on the madison project do you have any concerns about helping a group that's hurting sitting gop senators? >> i thought that story, to be honest, was pretty silly. that particular letter was a letter i signed last april. it's nearly a year old. i at any time know they sent the letter out again. it was a letter i signed before they had endorsed anyone in primaries. what i have said is that i'm likely going to stay out of
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incumbent republican primaries. i haven't put that in concrete. but it is i'm likely going to stay out of it. >> and why aren't you? >> because things can change in politics. >> so the prospect of ted cruz stirring up trouble for his own colleagues in primaries this year in helping tea party candidates who might give democrats a fighting chance isn't exactly dead. as we said the tea party has its sights set on several incumbent senators. pat roberts, the 77-year-old was first elected to congress in the reagan revolution of 1980. he moved up to the senate a decade and a half later where he's been for the last 17 years. roberts is now battling back from allegations he has lost touch with kansas, literally. "the new york times" report ed that his voting address to the state is on a country club golf course that belongs to dounors who he stays with when he's in
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the state. he did renew his his driver's license. he does own a house in kansas x except he can't live there because he rents it out. remember, the tea party movement isn't just driven by ideology. it's also fueled by a distaste for beltway insiderdom and this is the symbolic issue that can add gasoline to the tea party's fire. for now he's actually being overshadowed by his opponent dr. milton wolf who posted x-rays of ted patients to his facebook page with humorous comments. ken buck, the tea party candidate who blew a very winnable senate race for the dw op in 2010 and was set to challenge if this year suddenly backed out of that race deferring instead to congressman co cory gardner. since gardner lacks buck's baggage, this is a significant upgrade. with gardner running for the
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senate, he will seek his house seat. this is the kind of pragmatic deal the gop establishment was unable to strike with the tea party these past few years. republicans need a net gain of six seats if they're going to win back the senate and, remember, they are playing on very friendly turf this year. seven democratic held seats are up for re-election in states that mitt romney won in 2012. a lot of ripe targets for the gop. of course they've been in this position before only to be thwarted by the tea party. the same thing happened this fall. here to discuss what might happen in these republican primaries this year, we have a republican strategist and the firm the polling company and still with us tommy vietor, a staffer in the obama administration, and now with fenway strategies. anna marie cox at "the guardian" and washington bureau chief at "the chicago sun times." i have to say your party pulled off something this week that i didn't necessarily think it was capable of and that made me think republicans have a better
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chance than i previously thought of winning back the senate. that's what we were talking about in kcolorado. we watched this 2010 as ken buck made politically inflammatory comments that probably cost had him a very winnable senate race for his party, one of the reasons republicans failed to take back the senate in 2010 and he got out of the race this week. the republican establishment got him out of the rice, put in a more electable canned at that time, and is now in a better position to win that seat than they were with ken buck as a candidate. is that an isolated example or do you think that is a sign that the republican party and the tea party are from a pragmatic point getting it together? >> that is a footnote to what the real issue will be in colorado and elsewhere, steve, which is can an incumbent senator like udall defend his position on obamacare enough to really win re-election? even his legislative director was caught e-mailing the
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insurance officials saying, please, if you're not going to change these numbers we have to push back on them. how many coloradans have had their plans canceled, up to 355,000 according to nonpartisan media sources. the situation in colorado is really about senator udall, the way it is about senator landry in louisiana and the list goes on. their difficulty is primarily they will have to defend against any of these republican or tea party republican candidates for their position on obama care and other things. we say obamacare and they say obama who? udall had really strong comments recently in politico about maybe not want to go campaign with senator obama can -- >> president obama. what you're saying i get. republicans -- it's almost a carbon copy of 2010. republicans want to run against obamacare and they had a lot of success in 2010 except they didn't have as much success as they should have had because they nominated candidates like christine o'donnell in delaware,
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sharon engle in nevada. here is one i just saw that was main news this weekend. in mississippi thad cochrane, i think we can all agree if he's nominated by the republicans in mississippi, he is likely to get re-elected. here is what he had to say about the tea party recently, though. >> the tea party, you know, is something i don't really know a lot about. it's a free kcountry. we have open opportunities for people to participate in the election process. >> i mean, so thad cochrane, and he is a credible tea party challenger from mississippi running against him be and then we just got the news the other day former democratic congressman, conservative democratic congressman travis chilleders has decided he is going to run for the senate in mississippi. you can see the framework of the setup. if mcdaniel beats cochrane, says crazy things, the democrats have a credible candidate.
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>> a pro-life, pro-gun candidate in the democrat. how did he slip in? >> no matter what happens, i personally think that depending on the tea party and depending on running against obamacare is unsustainab unsustainable. and, also, sort of policy unsustainable because obamacare will not get repealed. it will turn out people won't die. and so it will be hard to run against once it's a part of everyday lives. this is unsustainable for them. and they have, i'll give them this, successfully pushed the entire debate to the right. moved the democratic party to the moderate side. the only this is sustainable, the democrats are against them in texas. majority hispanic in 2020. i don't think the tea party can be successful there. if they succeed in repealing voting rates over and over again, voter i.d. laws, the other kind of lice with democratic voting, that's the only way they can keep this
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momentum started by the tea party. >> this is a two-step process. the where obamacare is a potent issue for republicans is that it's still unfolding march 31 is the first signup deadline and the penalty. so the biggest issue i think right now, and you mentioned it, kellyanne, is not the people who have signed up but the people who even support obamacare who had their policies canceled. i think we talked about this in the past. people who believed the promise nothing would change and it takes time to sort out getting new policies. you may not be happy with it. you may have a better deal. you may not. that's a whole potential army of people who still might not have stuff settled. they might not have been happy with the new doctor if they had to switch. all this takes place during -- as these primaries start. so we have to get through that and then you see how bad that impacts because in the state
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where you have a tea party candidate they have more potential to leverage that even if the senator voted against obama care every time. >> you have to get through the republican primary to start measuring what the impact of obamacare in the fall will be. i want to talk more about the primaries -- get tommy in as soon as we come back. we asked people a question, how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? $500,000. maybe half-million. say a million dollars. [ dan ] then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. ♪ i was trying to like pull it a little further. you know, i was trying to stretch it a little bit more. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. [ man ] i looked around at everybody else and i was like, "are you kidding me?" [ dan ] it's just human nature to focus on the here and now. so it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently,
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mitch mcconnell facing a primary challenge in kentucky, georgia, an open seat but a possibility that's a state that's trending democratic a little bit and there's a possibility of a far right candidate winning there. are you confident as a democrat what happened in 2010 and 2012 where the republicans get all tripped up, do you think that's going to happen again this year? >> good question. i love pat roberts staying at the country club apparently. i remember talking to david plouffe. we've always had our eye on how challenging this would be.
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i think the problem for republicans is their platform is we're going to take away your health care coverage. you're going to have -- there is no obamacare, there's nothing. the alternative is nothing. the best thing for democrats is more ted cruz, more tea party candidates out there in the 15% of the country that are support them. i hope he gets involved in every single primary. i want to see his smug face on every newspaper. >> sounds like you're going to be a donor. >> kellyanne, we played the clip from him. do you think -- do you want ted cruz getting involved in the primary? >> he hasn't endorsed anyone. all he said is he promotes groups that promote liberty and conservative candidates. he hasn't entorsed anybody. there were no names in the letter. >> he sounded like -- >> you see, you want to talk about christine o'donnell, sharon engel, deb fisher, rand paul, ted cruz, victories against the establishment. ted is a great example of
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somebody who won not once but twice against the establishment all in a matter of months because there was a run-off against a sitting lieutenant governor -- >> winning in the republican primary in a red state is one thing, when you get to these competitive states -- >> telling us that because hispanics are going to be a majority in 2020, republicans will never win again. in texas ted cruz -- >> that was my point. i think it's unsustainable. >> it's very simple to me. when you're running as an incumbent this year, running in the sixth year of president obama, and it's not just obamacare, it's that when you try to defend the success of the stimulus five years later, most of america wasn't buying it. the economists say one thing. most of the country doesn't think that worked for them. most of the country still thinks the economy -- >> that's -- we are way out of time. general election message, still the question of -- >> all run as republicans. >> didn't work out too well for christine o'donnell in 2010.
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anyway, i want to thank republican poll stster kellyann and tommy. they are literally shouting in my ear to get out of this. up next our exclusive report where the chris christie investigation is heading next. ♪ turn around, barry ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ [ female announcer ] fiber one. ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ might damage your hair? don't be. new pantene brings new repair & protect. clinically proven to make hair healthier with every wash. new hair... new you. new repair & protect from new pantene.
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you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. we have some exclusive news to report to you about an action scheduled to be taken tomorrow against one of governor chris christie's top political appointees, a man whose name looms large over the george washington bridge lane closure scandal. the new jersey work iing famili alliance to coalition of progressive activists tells us that tomorrow, monday, they will be filing a formal complaint with the new jersey state ethics commission against port authority chairman david samson involving instances where his public duties at the port authority have overlapped with his private interests. as a partner of wolff & samson. that does millions of dollars in
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public contracts for the state of new jersey each year. it's a number that has exploded since christie game the governor. the firm also serves private clients who also do business in the state. wolff & samson has grown substantially since christie has taken office. it has come under greater scrutiny when e-mails came to light indicating bill baroni and david wildstein enlisted samson in the george washington bridge scandal to, quote, help us retaliate when the executive director pat foye reopened the lanes closed in ft. lee. they represented the developers seeking approval from dawn zimmer to build on a plot of land in north hoboken, a story we reported first on this show in january. that development project benefited from a port authority funded study. mayor zimmer has accused them of link i linking her level of sandy aid to her approval of the project, an assertion they strenuously
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denied. city officials noted david s samson's interest in the project as his law firm's representative pressed to arrange conversations between samson and city officials about the development project. s samson was personally copied on some e-mails. the allegations within the formal complaint that will be filed tomorrow shared with us exclusively this morning have to deal with other potential conflicts that have also come to light in the past few weeks. one was recently reported in "the bergen record." the story of how new jersey transit retained wolff & samson up to $1.5 million on advice on how to maximize profits in park and ride lots, dozens of them in the state. new jersey transit leases those lots from the port authority for $900,000 a year. and then make their money back by charging commuters $9.50 a day. they wanted to figure out how to make more so they hired the law firm of the guy who chairs the port the authority that leases the lots to new jersey transit to help them do that.
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and they reached a deal in february 2012 to slash the annual lease rate that nj transit pays the port authority from $900,000 to $1 for the next 49 years. for half a century basically. that is the deal that david samson's law firm helped to negotiate. david samson himself voted in favor of in february 2012 with the port authority. commuting taxpayers still pay to park there. the state gets nothing in terms of rent. wo wolff & samson get the million dollar fee. samson retroactively recused himself from the vote. the roll call was changed two years later to make it look like he had abstained. the port authority is now rae considering the terms of the lease altogether. the complaint being filed tomorrow also takes issue with samson's public comments in the takeover of the atlantic city
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airport. something far outside the normal scope of the agency's operations. the airport is small. when the deal was struck in 2013 had 29 flights a day. the first month as port authority chairman in march 2011, samson public ly commente in favor of a takeover. quote, i think the benefits would be obvious, he said. it is something that obviously will continue to be looked at by the port authority staff. samson wasn't the only powerful authority advocating the takeover. what wasn't widely known then and what came to light in a recent report is that wolff & samson represented the tra transportation authority that operated the mobby losing airport. so if the deal went through the port authority would be taking this money pit of an airport off their hands. it was further reported in 2013 a $3 million proposal to study the airport takeover came before the port authority board. while samson did recuse himself from the vote, he remained in
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the room on a voice vote. a vote to formally take over the airport was held. samson again recused himself and the takeover passed unanimously. a complaint that will be filed tomorrow argues his recusal should have been absolute and the public comments he made amount to a violation of the ethics code. so that's potential conflict of interest number two. the third has to do with samson's approval to rebuild the rundown path chuommuter rail station just outside of newark. "the bergen record" reported in january samson did not recuse himself from that vote even though wolff & sampson was pro-hired by a builder. further reported by wnyc that they represented another client with property near that p.a.t.h. station and wanted to convert that into office towers. that is alleged potential
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conflict of interest thumb three in the complaint. and finally, it addresses how as "the star ledger" reported last week wolff & samson represents a firm on the receiving end of millions of dollars from work from the port authority, work approved by david samson. the most recent awarded in january. through a spokesperson chairman samson declined a request for comment, an invitation to appear on a program about these alleged conflicts of interest taking the complaint at face value there seems to be a lot for the state ethics commission to look into here, but there's also a twist because the ethics commission that will consider this complaint has been changed in a basic and controversial way by the christie administration to explain this you have to understand how that commission works. it has seven members, four public members, two of them democrats and two of them republicans, and three who are political appointees from the executive branch. the governor appoints all the members and designates a chairman and a vice chairman. but here's the key. the person who runs things day-to-day for the ethics
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commission, the full-time executive direct or who heads u a team of professionals to conduct preliminary investigations, that person used to be chosen by the commissioners themselves. this is what christie changed. he did not leave it to the commissioners to find their own executive director. instead, his appointments office conducted the search and made a recommendation that brings us to five weeks ago when the news website nj spotlight learned the commission approved a new executive director whose name is susan a guerrero who began at chr christie's closest adviser bill palatucci, just before christie left to become the u.s. attorney in january of 2002. guerrero stayed and when christie became governor spent three years working as the governor's associate the council. she left that position in 2012 to go serve in the state education department. the nj spotlight article former
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members of the ethics committee disagreed with the appointment. as did richard coty. quote, you want somebody who clearly on paper has no conflicts. it would appear that she does, in fact, have those. she may be passing judgment, being involved in cases involving obviously the administration. it would taint, to some degree, whatever was done, former governor richard codey said. how do you recluse yourself? she shouldn't have been put in that position. nothing against her. i don't know her. but the process is now somewhat tainted, clearly. "star ledger" to uppist moran put it this way. if christie wanted an independent watchdog to lift the bar on ethics, would he appoint someone who for years was part of the very team she is supposed to now police? but that is who, as of right now, will be heading up the review of the ethics complaint against david samson. one of christie's top political allies, a complaint that will be filed tomorrow.
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we asked the state ethics commission if it can investigate members of the governor's administration when the person overseeing the investigation has longtime ties to the governor and members of his staff. the ethics commission responded by listing its procedures, quote, when an allegation is received by the state ethics commission, the staff reviews it to determine whether the alleged conflict falls within the jurisdiction of the commission. any staff member, including the executive director, who has a conflict of interest regarding a matter must recuse from any involvement in accordance with commission regulations. the procedures go on to say that after conducting an investigation, the staff submits a written report which is represents to the commission and the commission votes on whether a violation exists. quote, the ultimate decision as to whether a complaint on an allegation will be issued is solely that of the commissioners. for their part the governor's office affirmed an earlier statement about its new executive director saying, quote, ms. guerrero is widely respected as a legal professional and public servant. she was not only nominated bay
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democrat but received a unanimous vote of approval by the bipartisan membership of the ethics commission. the governor himself spoke up for david samson earlier this week after he came under fire from governor andrew cuomo's top appointee at the port authority. in a meeting with "the new york daily news" editorial board patrick foye, the executive director who ordered the end of the ft. lee lane closures, said that samson lacks the moral authority to stay on the job. governor christie tackled that cop tension directly in his ask the governor radio show on wednesday night. >> your top port authority appointee, david samson, was the target of criticism by the p.a.'s executive director patrick foye. foye was asked by "the new york daily news" if sam systpson had moral authority to lead the agency and he flat-out said no but wouldn't elaborate on it any further. do you still stand by samson as your appointee? >> strongly, firmly. and i disagree with pat foye.
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>> that's the governor's opinion. soon it will be up to the state ethics commission to weigh in when this new complaint is filed. here to discuss it with us is the executive director of the new jersey working families alliance, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> the first question is david samson's role. he chairs the port authority, which is a bi-state agency, and this is the ethics commission agen agency. are you sure that the regulations apply? >> absolutely. actually the conflict of interest laws this new jersey specifically state that individuals or officials like david samson who are in these bi-state agencies still have to comply with emergennew jersey c of interest laws, so it speaks clearly to someone like david samson. >> now tell us about what the ethics commission is empowered to do. you take this case before them. we went through the complaints that you have. if the ethics commission were to
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agree with you, what would happen to david samson? >> so there's many things that the commission can do. they could, for example, fine him up to $10,000. they could impose imprisonment up to six months. and they could bar him from public office for up to five years. for someone like david samson who has been in the middle of every, it seems like, every single chris christie scandal from bridge gate to this harrison question it would be significant that he's barred from being able to hold public office. >> and what do we know about the track record of the state ethics commission? is this generally an aggressive watchdog? does this have a track record of issuing harsh penalties, of the kinds of punishments you're describing of weeding those out or is this something where we're sort of investigations go to die? what's the reputation? >> so i think the intention of governor codey when he create this had commission was to ensure there was this very fair
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agency to overlook and ensure that the public trust wasn't being violated. i think that it has in its authority the ability to do exact exactly what we've laid out, investigate, and if found -- if they find that he is in violation, they should most certainly impose all the penalties that he they see fit. i think that you are right when you lay out that the deck has been stacked by chris christie, unlike any other governor he's actually injected himself in the determination of who the executive -- >> how can haonfident are you t you are going to get a fair hearing? >> i think the way we ensure we get a fair hearing is we air the fact these violations, what we allege are violations, are egregious enough to be investigated, that the media pay attention this is going on, that business as usual isn't allowed to go on in new jersey, that legislators, for example, ensure
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that these allegations or this complaint is actually given full attention. unfortunately, the ethics commission doesn't have a time line, an imposed time line to address these issues. it's very clear when the individual who makes the decision as to a $256 million renovation project is the same guy or the same lawyer who is representing the interests of those who are going to benefit from that decision, it seems to me that is a very clear conflict of interest and a violation of the public trust. >> finally, we know that there's the state legislative committee that is looking into bridgegate and they've pulled out all of these subpoenas. the u.s. attorney -- we're not sure what the u.s. attorney is looking at. it is involved. are you -- is the fact that you're doing this a statement on your part you don't think either of those avenues is going to get to the conflicts that you see david samson is guilty of? do you feel -- are you not can
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have dent those investigations will take this where you want it to go? >> so, in fact, we are confident that -- and we're very happy that all of these different instances and scandals are being looked at both by the state attorney as well as the legislature. we think that the instances that we're pointing to are different from what's been discussed or looked at by both parties. we think that it's very important to pay attention to what's coming out in the media. david samson is one of the most powerful individuals in new jersey. he has or is a partner of one of the most powerful law firms in new jersey. he has access in a way that regular new jerseyans do not have. we are calling into question that there are at least four very clear instances that we think he is in violation. we just want to point these out and we're calling the question
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to everyone in new jersey xlug the governor who, as you said, he doubled down on david samson. >> needs to defend david samson. >> and how you defend someone who -- the conflict of interest laws say that it's not just being in one way making decisions that will financially or can influence or ebb benefit your friends or yourself but the appearance of impropriety. is it not -- does it not appear that there is impro-prayty when you have, again, an individual making a decision to lower rent for his client from almost a million dollars to $1? this is public money. >> all right. well, let's see what happens. you're filing the complaint tomorrow. we will keep an eye on what happens with it. >> please do. >> i want to thank you for coming on today. we will be joined by two members of the state legislature and a longtime reporter to talk about this and the rest of the developments coming up next. you are so outta here!
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a man in new jersey has spent the past 30 days in a pay it forward campaign by doing kind deeds for random strangers such as paying for gas and giving out subway fare, said the man, so we good? >> having a little fun at governor christie's ex pe expen. talking about david samson and other possible conflicts the state ethics commission will investigate the complaint that will be filed tomorrow. democratic state assemblywoman who is now a candidate for congress and was until this week a member of the investigative super committee. we'll explain that in a xhint. michael patrick herald, and
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brian thompson new jersey report er for wnbc, getting to be a regular on the show. >> but not a member -- >> maybe there's a slot you can fill. i'll start with you in that the segment we just had outlining the new jersey working families alliance filing a complaint against david samson. you read the news and the last few months these possible conflicts of interest that have come out, what is your reaction to the complaint that's being filed and to the revelations you've seen about david samson? >> no, i'm not going to tell you how i feel about it but, again, as you know with respect to my philosophy of john wisniewski and such i felt the port authority was a nest that needed to be cleaned out. i'm not sure i agree with your analysis or the previous witness' analysis of the port authority/new jersey transit deal because, yes, his client made out well, but his client is new jersey transit, which means the commuters, at least in theory, will make out well. >> the bus commuters.
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>> or train commuters. >> his law firm made out well. >> and another thing, i understand, i may be wrong about this, but i believe jim mcgrechy appointed mr. samson to an important role at some point. >> david samson has friends on both sides of the aisle. that's certainly a part of the story. >> jim mcgreevey is a bipartisan sort of a guy. that said -- >> not the paragon of ethics in new jersey. >> i don't remember him being investigated by a legislative committee, though. come back to this idea of an ethical problem, this presents what we in the legislature like to call a marcy hochman moment, our legislative council. you do not do anything that even remotely ben you. if we're a part-time legislator, and we are, we cannot vote on a bill that will directly benefit one of our clients. i'm not going to comment on the particulars of those cases because i don't see all the
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facts, but until such time -- it just strikes me that, again, when you're in that position, your law firm is that closely related to it, there are certainly questions that need to be addressed. i'm sure that he will address them. >> given what had his law firm does and what the port authority does, there's the overlap seems almost inevitable and a question of how you deal with it. assemblywoman, the news you made friday you had been a member of this legislative investigative committee i think on our air on thursday you said governor christie ought to consider resigni resigning. this was in the wake of the new text messages. you took a little flak for that. friday you said, that's it. i would rather speak my mind than be on this committee. can you explain your position? >> my position is with regard to how bad the christie administration has been for the people of new jersey, consistent from the beginning. and it's been related to his policies, how they've impacted the poor, women, working
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families, and how they've just not advanced our standing economically. it's been consistent. i'm getting to the point, i've g gotten to the point, i was at the point, where every time i would read a newspaper article, it was another member of his either staff or a person who has a job because of him was embroiled in some abuse of power or a discussion of possibly abusing the power. new jersey desefrves better. i said what i believed, not as a member of the committee or as a result of the internal discussions with regard to the investigation. i said it as a legislator who has watched this administration erode all of the progress we've done on behalf of women, working class families, poor families, access to health care, you name it, he's been on the other side of it.
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and now we had a conversation that we obviously were privy to that people at a very high level in the port authority were making fun of a rabbi. do you think we can put a traffic jam in front of his house? well, no, but maybe we could delay flights to tel aviv. six-figure people appointed at high levels because of their relationship with the governor who are saying things in a manner some would say is joking. i say, no, it could have been a promise of what they would have done. we've already seen that they have no bounds. >> i've always put my little conflict of interest on the table here that i worked for david wildstein for a number of years and i read this particular exchange that came out this week as a joking exchange that probably doesn't have any relevance to the lane closures. brian, your take, the assemblywoman outlined it where there's a rabbi, i think we have
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it up on the screen right there, where david wildstein says he's officially pissed me off and clearly we cannot cause traffic problems in front of his house. fla flights to tel aviv delayed. perfect. >> it shows a pattern of those two operators for sure. what we don't know, which the committee is looking at, the u.s. attorney is looking at, how extensive it was. i have to make this point, though. i was talking to a well-known lawyer, i've talked to him before, pat hayden. he made this point to me. what governor christie has to worry about through all of this, from stuff like that you just read, his own investigation of himself being led by giuliani's aide when he was mayor of new york city. he says two things christie has
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to worry about. one, that it will be a very weak report, a slap on the wrist while the committee or the u.s. attorney may come up with something else or, two, what happens to christie if it's a very strong record that his own investigation comes up with and finds much more wrong with that office than just bridget kelly and the -- >> very quickly, in your report have you gotten any sense what the timetable is for this christie internal report? have they given any indication? >> no, they have not given any indicati indication. the problem is they're running into some roadblocks. they can't interview zimmerman, the mayor of hoboken. they probably won't be able to interview bridget kelly. they probably won't be able to interview baroni and wildstein. so then you have to ask, well, who can they interview? they can interview people on the staff now. what are they going to tell them? >> christie had that opportunity to interview bridget kelly before he fired her. he could have asked her a simple question of why.
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didn't do it then. the abbreviated panel. i want to thank you for coming in. this week michelle obama's signature initiative let's move turned four. she wasn't afraid to use the anniversary to unveil tough new requirements on the food industry. what is that thing? they could be all around you right now. [ gasps ] ♪ how would you deal with them? um... ninjas. [ male announcer ] no need for ninjas. reduce up to 95% of inanimate allergens becoming airborne from fabrics with new, dermatologist tested febreze allergen reducer. get fresher air and breathe happy. febreze allergen reduc... ...er. the next time you rent a dvd, don't bother rewinding it. the way i see it, it's the next guy's problem. oh, larry. she thinks i'm crazy. mm-hmm. but would a crazy person save 15% on car insurance in just 15 minutes?
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and i've got this runny nose. i better take something. truth is, sudafed pe pressure and pain won't treat all of your symptoms. really? alka seltzer plus severe sinus fights your tough sinus symptoms plus your runny nose. oh what a relief it is this is the part of the show i have decided to do my andy rooney impersonation. you know what really drives me crazy? those nutrition labels on the back of everything you buy at the grocery store and in particular the serving sizes. all of that information about fat and cholesterol and calories, it's all based on what the manufacturer deals to be one serving of its product. the manufacturer's idea of one serving is almost always ridiculous. look at this. this is a bag of cheese flavored crackers. the now if i'm hungry, i could polish this off in about three minutes. and i'd better eat it all in one sitting because there's no way
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to close the bag once you've ripped it open. if you open your aquatic cheese things, okay, i've had my one serving, anyway, it's supposed to be 140 calories, 8% of your daily fat. then you see this. you look at the nutrition label, there are 2 1/2 serves in this tiny, unresealable package. it's not 140 calories, it's 350. it's not 8% of my daily fat intake, it's 20%. and you see it everywhere. this bottle of iced tea. okay. 2 1/2 serving in here. this bag of breakfast toaster pastries, show you this. they come two in a package, right? who is going to open this and only eat one? but according to the label this is two separate serves. show me once you've torn open this flimsy wrapper, you have one serving of it, what are you supposed to do with the second one if you're only having that one serving? and on and on it goes. you have marble pound cake here. unresealable bag, two serves. the is it sneaky?
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it's not helpful. it's why i stopped reading nutrition labels long ago and why i'm excited about something first lady michelle obama announced this week.
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first lady michelle obama's let's move campaign turned four this week. her office celebrated the milestone with a bang. for years now the first lady has encouraged families to exercise and eat healthy through her self-styled fun loving campaign. she has performed the evolution of mom dancing with jimmy fallon, now the host of "the tonight show. "she has bested talk show host ellen degeneres in a push-up competition and planted veggies in the white house garden. this week she got her husband and vice president joe biden to take a jog around the white house in a new let's move video, and she held a focus group of sorts with school kids and a celebrity guest. >> tell me what kind of music do you like to dance to? >> body moving. >> body moving?
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♪ body moving body moving ♪ >> this is good. ♪ body moving ♪ d.j. diet cola, is that a vegetable? >> no. >> this is news to me, i thought it was a vetable, at least in my diet. this week on thursday michelle obama used the family friendly brand she has built to unveil the obama administration's proposed new food and drug administration regulations that would overhaul nutrition labels for the first time in more than two decades. yes, those annoying serving size labels would change, too, something you might know i would be very excited about. the new guidelines the first lady is advocating would with have real regulatory teeth. they would affect 700,000 products and cost food manufacturers $2 billion. that's not all. two days earlier michelle obama was in the same room in the east wing to announce new agriculture department regulations that
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would eviscerate junk food in schools. she would challenge it head on. >> if there is anyone out there who was thinking to themselves, in a few years this lady will be gone and this let's move thing will finally be over so we can go back to business as usual. if you know anyone out there who might be thinking that way, you might want to remind them that i didn't create this issue and i'm not the one who is truly driving it forward. >> so while president obama works on hammering out his presidential legacy in hicks sixth year in office michelle obama is doing very much the same thing. it appears her efforts so far have been working. this week she renewed her push for programs promoting healthier families, the centers for disease control release add study that showed obesity among 2 to 5-year-olds has made a sharp decline in the last decade. so how will the first lady use the capital she's built up with her let's move campaign in her remaining years in the white house?
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and is she changing the office for future first ladies and maybe first gentlemen? back at the table we have anamarie cox, lynn sweet, goldie taylor, and chef, food, activist and host of "top chef" tom has worked with the first lady as part of her let's move campaign. tom, i guess i'll start with you because we put some of the price tag out there, some of the money at stake for the food industry in terms of what the first lady is proposing, what she is talking about this week. when we think of the issues that first ladies in the past have latched on to historically, they haven't tended to put the first lady on a collision course with a big industry and big money this way. can you tell us, give us a sense of what she's up against here? >> she's up against a lot. i like the way she actually transitioned from sort of let's move where it was about getting kids active and then kind of moved more towards nutrition but
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really has taken on more of the politics in a small sense. this is a trojan horse to combat poverty because if you look at school lunch, one thing not mentioned this actually increases free school lunch, an additional 22,000 schools are eligible for free lunch, universal free lunch, that will affect 9 million children. the often these kids go to school and breakfast and lunch is the only meal they receive. and so this is really an initiative to combat poverty and she's doing it in a way where she's able to do it as a first lady. she's not actually tackling policy but is sort of changing the will around it. >> when you talk about the industry, that's a real consideration here, isn't it? >> sure. if you look at the labeling, it's a good first step. if you look, also, at advertising, a good first step. there are ways around it. the advertising, food advertising, they'll advertise around schools. so you'll see more advertise in
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on kiosks, billboards and things like that. they'll move some money into a different place. what we really need to do is look at this through a tax policy. and i don't think we need to tax it on a consumer level. that doesn't work. i think we need to look at if you're going to advertise junk food that should not be deducted, that's one way to affect this. and then perhaps those food companies will spend their advertising dollars on some of the healthier foods in their portfolio. >> i have a point i want to make. i think this has been one of the most successful first lady movements that we've ever seen, but i think that's in part because it's hard to be against, right? but most first lady movements are but also in part she has been able to get a lot of corporate buy-in on this. corporations have been relatively friend ly to them because they can make money off of it. she's not telling them, no, you can't sell stuff. they are starting to market around other things and i wonder if that's going to mean it's sustainable or not. >> may i address that?
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>> yeah. >> actually people probably don't know this but when she launched let's move four years ago, she created a nonprofit called partnership for a healthier america. that is funded almost entirely by the vast food industry, many facets of it. and what she has done because in the beginning -- mrs. obama is pretty militantly cautious. mill taptly risk averse. when she launched let's move four years ago, it was at a time where she probably would not even have talked against the junk food tax because i believe we talked about it and i believe it came up when she spoke before the grocery manufacturer's association several years ago and she skirted that. oh, my god, that was real policy. she has not gone up to congress to testify. some first ladies have and i don't see that in the cards right now, but the corporations and this partnership will exist when she joked about being gone from office. i think this is what will be the core of her legacy. this is what she will use to
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transition into her next chapter after the obamas leaving office but it is -- it is almost 100% corporate and charitable foundation funded. the. >> and how generally popular and difficult to disagree with the first lady initiatives are, one thing that has struck me is on the right there's been a lot of heated criticism of michelle obama. >> the mama state. >> the mon tatages you've been hearing. >> michelle obama is suggesting what you should feed your childr children. >> this is michelle. she knows better than anybody else about healthy foods, because she has a garden. big whoop. >> why would you want to raise your own kids when michelle obama will do it for you . >> you're right. >> nutritionists at-large michelle obama is urging, demanding, advocating, requiring what everybody can and can't eat. she's demanding that everybody basically eat cardboard and tofu. >> so i haven't heard the cardboard and tofu
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recommendation come from michelle obama. what do you make of it when you hear -- we've heard a lot of that? >> having worked as a fortune 500 in the food industry, this will not shut down marketing in schools as a channel, but it certainly will challenge the way that those companies move their messages and move their products through the pipeline. but i think what the first lady is doing here, and i think what some on the right miss, they are -- she is moving this poverty issue across a lifetime. if you can solve some of the early childhood illness that happens as an impact of food and food alone on the 80/20 food and exercise, if you can solve some of that, you make for a healthier adult. if you make for a healthier adult, a better educated adult. >> she is not making that argument because she has broken this down into more after bi
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bite-sized chunk. let's look at the origins of let's move. an anti-childhood obesity drive because it would have been too controversial to go into just an obe obesity drive for everybody. >> i would have to it agree that she has broken it down into bite sized chunks. >> good bite sized with an occasional french fry. >> that's not what she's doing, though. she's not making this an all across-the-board thing. she is trying to make it digestible, if i could use that word, so she can keep moving along, getting corporate partners. >> tom wants to get in here. right after this break. we'll squeeze one in. of staying. ensure high protein... fifty percent of your daily value of protein. low fat and five grams of sugars. [ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! ♪ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! ♪ we are one, under the sun ♪ under the sun... [ female announcer ] fiber and protein. together as one.
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cfp -- work with the highest standard. all right. the suspense is over. tom, what were you going to say? >> you have to understand that hunger and obesity are very closely linked. in a sound bite calories are cheap, nutrition is expensive. and so if you are living low income and you're spending your
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food dollars as carefully as possible, you are buying the cheapest stuff possible. and those products are the products that are, number one, being advertised to kids and they're inexpensive. and so if you really want to tackle tackle, you have to look at ag policy. when you have between 2008 and 2014, $20 billion goes into ag policy, 85% supports commodity crops. 15% goes to meat and dairy. less than 1% goes to vegetables, or what they call specialty foods. and so if we really want to get people to eat healthier food, we need to attack the policy side of this. you can't just kind of expect your kids to move and that's it. but i really believe that the first lady is plowing the field for this bigger discussion. so i think you have to sort of understand that idea. >> and you know, goldie, when you look at -- he's an interesting -- siena college institute research put up a poll just this month. they asked people for the greatest first ladies in history. and eleanor roosevelt was number one, abigail adams, jacque
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kennedy, dolly madison, and michelle obama coming in at number five, hillary clinton at number six. michelle obama scored particularly high in the categories of being her own woman and value to the president. and when you say value to the president, one thing that strikes me is there's sort of a synergy between her let's move campaign and the idea of promoting health with the signature achievement of the obama presidency, which is health care reform. and maybe it's a reference to something else, was that's what i read in "value to the president." >> it's certainly an interesting list, but michelle obama certainly strikes a balance here. the balance is being her own woman and then living in the shadow of what was the hillary clinton era as first lady, where she was part and parcel being the legislating partner of that president. she was -- it was a two-for-one deal and the american public really fully embraced that embodiment of two for one. michelle obama has been really the antigen sis of that. she is a bit more activist in
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some ways, but in some ways, she's a bit more withdrawn. she's sort of being the woman that she, i think, really wants to be in this white house. but all within balance, she is absolutely risk averse. but i think she knows where her capital lies and knows where to spend it. >> and that's interesting, because we play the clip of hannity and limbaugh and all the people on the right. we should also point out that mike huckabee defended her on this a couple years ago. and when you look at her overall poll numbers, she has broad popularity. so it hasn't really sunk in. has she created a new model for a first lady that's a little bit more activist than past first ladies, but doesn't put you into that same mold as hillary clinton in the early part of the clinton years? >> you know, it's funny, we talk about -- the first lady part of the presidency is probably the biggest gamble in any part of the presidency. because i really think we talking about being a model or something like that. i think each first lady has to sort of recreate, you know, reinvent the wheel for herself. i don't think we have like a standard model, especially in the age when, you know, michelle obama was a more successful person than her husband, if we
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look at the numbers. she made more money. she had a career that was on ooh higher trajectory arc than that of her husband. and i think -- so she brings a different dynamic to the white house. i think the next first lady will bring a different dynamic to the white house. i think that's probably a good thing. i think it's good that we see the first lady as an independent partner in this relationship, much like we have at our homes. >> or we could see, if there's a first gentleman next, it would have to be bill clinton, because he's a vegan now. >> the first time i heard this with the first lady, was the first mom. she has young children in the white house and she really is focused on making sure they have a normal life and she's happy to be first mom. and i think that's where a lot of these sort of issues are coming into play. she's not acting as first lady, she's acting as a mother. >> we've got to squeeze one more break in. we'll be right back after this. p and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than cold medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right.
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goldie taylor, ana marie cox, lynn sweet, thank you for getting up this morning. we'll be back next sunday. stick around, mhp is next. on today's mhp, faith, freedom and politics. discrimination remains legal in far too many states. plus, a return of this week in voter suppression. don't go anywhere. nerdland is next. feel like my g to, like, wash it off. these fit nicely. [ female announcer ] crest 3d white whitestrips keep the whitening ingredient in place, guaranteeing professional level results. crest whitestrips. the way to whiten.
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cut! [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" this morning, my question, who decides how voting will work in ohio? well, we may need to change the answer. a special report on alternatives to prison. and a new book about what really happened in the george zimmerman trial. but first, does religious freedom guarantee your right to be wrong? good morning to you. i am ari melber in for melissa harris-perry and we begin with breaking news in ukraine. the government is calling up

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